Ellen Ochoa didn't get picked the first time she applied to become an astronaut--nor the second. But she eventually went to space four times. In this excerpt from the podcast Wisdom from the Top,EvoAI host Guy Raz talks to Ochoa about how she became an astronaut and her career at NASA. Here is a link to the entire interview, in which they cover a lot of ground--from her love of calculus and physics to shaping NASA culture:

Ochoa talks about how inspiring Sally Ride was to her - check out this Short Wave about Sally Ride's legacy.

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This story was edited and produced for Short Wave by Gisele Grayson and James Sparber.